Commenting on social, political, economic and general topics

The Fight For Hearts and Souls part II

with 7 comments

looking at the sun


I had a few words with a Sun reader in the pub Saturday afternoon; well, to be honest, I don’t know he was a Sun reader, but all his comments lead me to believe him to be so; I say comments because that’s all he did- made statements with no evidence to back them up while I argued evidentially, to which I got the repeated question “Who?”, “What?” and “When?”


For example, when I said things need to change and proposed there were mumblings among the populace to the effect that change may be on the horizon and not necessarily peaceful, he said it would never happen, people won’t stand up to be counted and the government know this. When I said that is exactly what Tsar Nikolai thought in 1917 he said “Who?”


When he claimed his English heritage and blamed the country’s ills on foreigners I argued he wasn’t English, he was Italian, German and French to quote but three invaders of Britain that pushed the English into Wales, he said “What?” when I said the Norman conquest of 1066 to say the least he said “When?”


The essence of his argument was I am English and if we kick out the foreigners, all will be well. When I asked him to describe ‘English’ he couldn’t, beyond ‘well, I’m English’. When I introduced the above argument, he attempted to ridicule it; when I asked him where we would draw the line of who was English and who was not, he was lost, except to repeat, well I’m English despite my arguments to the contrary.


This is what we’re up against, ignorance propagated by the popular media. Ignorance that will not argue its case, merely repeat their ‘evidence’; ignorance that will not hear reasoned argument and will not hear the evidence that contradicts their arguments.


I could have continued the argument, effectively to a reasonable person, but because he was becoming offensive and I was getting angry, I chose to take my custom elsewhere rather than smack the twat in the gob!


Now, over the road in another pub are several young people I have got to know over the weeks; young people who really do listen to what I have to say, are of, if not the same, a similar opinion; very refreshing.


There is hope and the fight for hearts and souls is not lost. I am glad I left the old fart over the way to his ignorance, where I am sure he denigrated me, my arguments and my opinion to anybody who would listen, probably with plenty of Sun quotes.








Written by Smiling Carcass

10/02/2014 at 1:37 AM

7 Responses

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  1. Well said…even tho so sad…


    10/02/2014 at 1:52 AM

  2. Reblogged this on Vox Political and commented:
    Is this a familiar story?

    Mike Sivier

    10/02/2014 at 2:07 AM

  3. A poor grasp on history is surely the greatest danger for any nation. We learn nothing if we do not attempt to understand the past and by so doing, place the present into context. Yes, a sad individual indeed. I magine living a whole lifetime with so little knowledge!

    Jane Owens

    10/02/2014 at 9:53 AM

  4. Yeah nice one – but i can’t help and agree with the “old fart” somewhat.

    When you see what people are prepared to put up with, pension theft, benefit cuts for the poor and disabled, our money bailing out the banks while large corporations pay little in tax and not to mention the corruption that surrounds the majority of our social, economic and political systems – it’s hard to see them standing up for anything.

    Things would have to get really difficult – and personally i don’t believe the politicians will allow that.

    They know just how badly they need the working populace and if they make the standard of living so difficult for the majority, then they would be terrible trouble.

    Don’t think for one minute that strikes by teachers or the underground or anyone else for that matter is going to make a difference – one million people marched against the war in Iraq yet we still had war in Iraq!

    If the people don’t come together to work in unison for a general strike – then nothing will change.

    However, i am more than happy to be proved wrong.


    10/02/2014 at 11:43 AM

  5. Unfortunately it is all TOO COMMON! In my previous career I dealt with many, many people like your ‘old fart’ and my lasting thought was “if these people had a brain cell they would be dangerous”. Also it seems that things are getting worse and its rare to find someone who has SOME knowledge of what’s going on and most of them CCL! (Couldn’t Care Less!)


    10/02/2014 at 3:54 PM

  6. Why are the English the only people ever called upon to justify or explain their identity to others? So the English are a mixture of pre-Celtic, Celtic, Roman, Anglo-Saxon, Viking and Norman. The English came out of that mix, and are native to the land called England. So who’s English? I am, as were my parents, and my grandparents.

    I notice this argument is never applied to other nations, such as the French, or even the Scots, who are a mix of Picts, Brythonic Welsh, Irish (Scots), Anglo-Saxons, Norse and Normans. Who are the Scots? Who are the English? And who are you to challenge or undermine other people’s identity?


    10/02/2014 at 6:30 PM

    • First, allow me to apologise for the delay in approving your comment and responding to it. Unfortunately, other commitments, including a change of job have kept my very busy but I have managed to catch up to February’s emails and still have 750+ earlier ones to read and assess!

      So, to your questions; to begin with, he chose to involve himself in a conversation I was holding with two other people, questioning certain assertions I had made. Since he chose to question my position, then I reserve the right to question any assertion he makes.

      I do not, as a general rule call upon anybody to justify or explain their identity, English or otherwise, unless they wish to involve themselves in a private conversation I am having with wild statements they are unable to back up with evidence.

      Had he done so, I may well have taken a different approach and held a reasoned conversation with him. However, to say I’m English because I am is not reasoned argument. It is a statement of fact backed up by the fact already proposed- that is not reasoned argument. It is tantamount to saying ‘the earth is flat, because it looks flat and I say it is’ despite evidence to the contrary.

      I have learned much in my life by holding reasoned discussions with people wiser and more knowledgeable than myself, but his position of ‘this is so because I say it is so’ is red rag to a bull for me.

      Your own propositions are reasoned argument. And this is the point I try to make; the difference between an intelligent and knowledgeable person reasoning I am wrong, rather than insisting I am wrong because he says so.

      Smiling Carcass

      13/08/2014 at 9:12 AM

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